The other side

bell hooks, Rock My Soul: Black People and Self-Esteem

Living in a White-supremacist culture, Black people receive the message daily, through both mass media and our interactions with an unenlightened White world, that to be Black is to be inferior and subordinate. Our Blackness is seen as a threat to be subdued or eliminated. Such a cultural context hardly prepares us to embrace healthy self-esteem.

In fact, Black people who do possess healthy self-esteem often find that we are more likely to face racist attacks, precisely because we do not fit the negative stereotypes of Black identity that many White people feel comfortable with. Black people with self-esteem are often told by unenlightened Whites–even some individuals who are liberal and friendly–that we are not “really Black.” In telling us this, these Whites do not see themselves as expressing racism; they feel they are offering us a special place. Yet there is, in these words, an attempt to seduce us away from loving Blackness, to undermine the very self-esteem that, by its existence, eliminates White supremacist domination.

Let’s face it: If all Black people were able to cultivate healthy self-esteem, institutionalized racism might continue to exist, but White supremacist domination would no longer have a place in our psyches or in our intimate lives. As Lerone Bennet, Jr., was fond of saying: “The last bastion of White supremacy is in the Black man’s mind.”

Internalized racism has been a feature of Black life in the United States from the very first moment Black people found that White people would reward them, be kinder to them, and like them better if they showed a higher regard for Whiteness than Blackness. There were no doubt many such moments during slavery, moments that became more pronounced as the rape of Black females by White males produced Black people who were fair-skinned and automatically deemed better in racist iconography.

When civil-rights advocates fought for racial desegregation, they did not produce documents addressing how the self-esteem of Black folks might be damaged by interactions with White folks who had not unlearned White supremacist thinking and action. In the late sixties and early seventies, it was often just assumed that White people who chose to hang out with Black people liked them, and that their friendly association with Blacks assured that these Whites were free of racist attitudes and behavior. It was a gesture of low self-esteem that some Black folks felt better about themselves when liked by a White person.

47 thoughts on “The other side

  1. This article says: As Lerone Bennet, Jr., was fond of saying: “The last bastion of White supremacy is in the Black man’s mind.”

    Steve Biko said, “The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.”
    Speech in Cape Town, 1971 On that note, http://www.swaraj.org/shikshantar/resources_ki-zerbo.html describes the way many people in poor countries feel about us exporting “education” to them.

  2. Yes, bell hooks is so good, and continues to be in this later book of hers. I especially like her explanations of black rage, and the leftover collective sense of distrust and resentment from centuries of abuse. She taught me a lot also about the white silencing of black voices in many arenas. And about Basquiat! (sp?) I could go on and on!

    The internalized racism she describes here is also dramatized powerfully in Toni Morrison’s The Bluest Eye.

  3. Pingback: How Whites benefit from fighting White privilege #1: Self-Esteem « Restructure!

  4. Honestly, I thought that bell hooks writing was so similar to Resistance that I was not sure who was writing what.

    That said, I wonder about self-esteem? How can white people who have adopted a child of color help their child develop healthy identitiy?

  5. My friends and I argue about this an innate self hatred. They think that my screen name feflects the same. Actually I’m confident enough to call myself UBJ.
    The low self-esteem issue is as harmful as the “White-Guilt” penomenon. Racial issues in America aren’t so much (at this point in time) a Black/White issue so much as it is a Black issue.

  6. Hmm, off the top of my head I’d say:

    surround them with adults and kids of their culture — these should be people who fit seamlessly into your life– not people you only see within the context of acculturating your child, and they should be from a variety of different backgrounds/careers etc. to show your child that there are many ways to be that culture

    examine your environment — are there people of your child’s culture in the neighborhood? at school? at your place of worship? at your dinner table?

    give your child dolls and books they reflect their heritage,

    teach your child about the glory of their cultural history both here and in their homeland

    let your child know its okay to love their bio family — (regardless of) but especially if the child is from a culture where he or she was given up for reasons of poverty, one-child laws, etc., instead of being unwanted, acknowledge that his parents may have had no choice about giving him up (i.e. China)

    — acknowledge that the child is still probably loved and remembered in that culture and that its fine for him to love and connect with that family and culture — even physically one day

    don’t excessively doubt your child’s perspective — sometimes he’ll see nuances, racism, or attitudes you don’t and that should be validated

    acknowledge the privilege that allowed you to adopt your child and that in a perfect world (one free of neoliberalism, neocolonialism, and an adoption INDUSTRY, he might be with his bio family)

    let your child know he doesn’t have to be white to be American or to be part of the family, also let him know that fighting white privilege isn’t the same as fighting you and that you are his ally against white privilege

    Remind your child of this quote by Christian Palestinian scholar Munir Fasheh: No person is pure anything; every person is a unique combination of many “worlds”, every person can be “home” for several worlds that live together in a harmonious way within the person.

  7. Kathy- Don’t make a big deal of their differences. If it seems normal to you, it will be normal to them. Be careful in all of your teaching that the only thing they learn is how different they are.

  8. Racial issues in America aren’t so much (at this point in time) a Black/White issue so much as it is a Black issue: this is blatantly not true.

    It’s not black teachers who send black kids who make the same grades as white kids sent to AP classes to remedial classes. It’s not black juries, judges, and police who kill unarmed whites or disproportionately arrest and sentence whites. It’s not black bankers and employers who deny credit to qualified white would-be borrowers or reject applicants with “white-sounding names” or hire blacks with criminal records over whites without them or blacks with lower qualifications over whites with higher qualifications (and statistics show all these are specific ways of whites favoring whites.) It’s not blacks who redline neighborhoods or police whites for driving while white. It’s not black doctors who, independent of economic disparities, give whites worse care than blacks due to discrimination or are less likely to give whites painkiller (white doctors have been proven to treats black this way.) It’s not blacks who put so many toxic producing buildings in white neighborhoods that 75000 whites die each year of air toxicity (that’s how many blacks die.)

    All of the things I’ve said that blacks don’t do to whites, whites do do to blacks. Racism isn’t a black/white problem. It’s a white problem.

  9. John, I won’t call you ugly, as I know you are not, but why do you connect black and ugly, and isn’t confidence about celebrating your unique beauty? Besides, someone who thinks calling themselves ugly is an expression of confidence shouldn’t be advising others on instilling self-esteem in a child. I don’t think Kathy is going to make a “big deal” out of her child’s differences, but its dangerous for her not to acknowledge and celebrate her child’s differences (I know, my mom’s a retired child psych.) And yes she should teach her child what they have in common, but what feels common to Kathy as a person society privileges WONT feel normal to a person society despises. For example, it feels normal to my white friend of equal affluence, education, and manner to go shopping in Paris and be treated with respect and it feels normal for me to be scorned — Kathy has to know to expect that difference and be able to handle it.

  10. panracial- You’re re-re-restating the problems not the issues or solutions. The article was about our culture’s self hatred. Maybe the inculcation of racism causes you to have a “chip on your shoulder” that you may not notice but others do. Our current Black culture is failing and deficient. Too many people trying to “keep it real” and not enough willing to face the reality that we blacks do more damage to blacks than do whites. The “Blame_Whitey” attitude is mostly an excuse for our own shortcomings. Read my profile and you’ll understand my background and maybe even my perspective.
    As far as the UBJ title- What should it be? HandsomeBi-RacialJohn? Sounds a bit arrogant.

  11. I don’t have a chip on my shoulders — and no “others” have noticed it, just you. I am restating problems — problems that prove who’s problem racism is — that’s not blaming whitey, that’s acknowledging facts. Show statistics that say we’re failing – black kids drink, use drugs, have casual sex, and carry weapons to school all less that white kids – how is that deficient? Since the 60’s we’ve increased educational levels, the size of our middle class, and decreased teenage pregnancy — how is that failing? Apparently you’ve absorbed so much self-hatred that you base arguments on stereotypes as opposed to facts. Show the statistics that show blacks do more damage to blacks than whites do. How is it a black shortcoming that a white man with a criminal record is able to get a job before he is? Furthermore, why does handsome get connected with bi-racial and ugly with black? Why can’t you just be John?

  12. Ha!..You sound like Martin Lawrence’s character in Boomerang. What I’m saying is that whites can’t solve these problems- it’s up to us blacks.
    UBJ is just as ambiguous as is “panracial”. lt was meant to be sarcastic and not self-engrandizig. Black=Ugly wasn’t the point. I was just stating that it’s just a title and I’m not defined by what someone calls me.

  13. I have no idea what character you’re talking about. I do no that people turn to mockery when they can’t back up what they say with facts. I’m still waiting on your facts about how we’re so deficient. There is no way for a black person to solve the problem of a white person not giving them a job the black person is qualified for – unless black people start practicing mind control. There was no way for Amadou Diallo to solve the problem of police shooting him – unless blacks develop superhero bullet stopping skills. Panracial is a joke hyperbolizing the fact that I’m actually quadracial – something I’ve mentioned on other threads.

  14. The only occupation in America in which race has little impact in determining who gets hired is athletics. If you’re the best, you get the job.
    In America, everyone is racist, but not everyone is Racist. This is our situation. In your answer you posed a question about a white person giving or not giving someone a job. Don’t Blacks own businesses”. (White=Better by default ?) I see that you included the caveat ” is qualified for”- good, being qualified not just thinking that one is qualified, is the first step. Too many blacks feel that being able to assimilate into corporate America is selling out- acting white. Most white people in positions of power had to learn the corporate culture- which is not synonomous with white culture.
    Diallo’s situation was unexplainable. The cops messed up. But I’m sure that when you see a police officer, you don’t just assume that he’s going to open fire on you. It’s not the norm.
    As far as the facts:
    Single mother households, high incarceration rates, low graduation rates and all of the problems that go along with those issues. The question is; How do we evolve and adapt to a hostile environment to improve our chances of survival? Not; “What did the bad white man do to us today?” Again I say; It’s a Black thing first- then we can work on everything else.

  15. John, job discrimination keeps the best from getting jobs they are more qualified for than blacks — if you have statistics that show otherwise cite them. No everyone isn’t racist in America either. I’m not racist. Are you? Blacks own businesses, but not enough to protect blacks from massive white discrimination. Your conjecture about assimilation is just based on steretoype and not fact. Diallo’s situation isn’t unexplainable — it’s part of a larger partern that includes “That Joseph Guzman, Trent Benefield and Bell were shot by officers Oliver, Cooper and Isnora was “a tragedy” we are assured by the Judge, but not one for which there is any legal remedy in the criminal courts. Just as there was no remedy for those who murdered Amadou Diallo, or Patrick Dorsimond, or Frankie Arzuega, or Annibal Carrasquillo or Aswon Watson before them. Or, in places other than New York: Tyisha Miller, Dontae Dawson, Carl Hardiman, Tim Thomas, Michael Carpenter, Roger Owensby, Aquan Salmon, or Adolph Archie–the latter of whom was driven around New Orleans and beaten for over two hours by cops there in 1990, who suspected him of having killed one of their own. By the time they took him to the hospital, they had broken every bone in his face. He would soon die, and the cause of death would be listed by the coroner as “homicide by police intervention.” But no one would ever be punished for the murder: no prison time, no suspension, no anything.” from http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/theyshoot.html If you have evidence of other races of people being equally shot by the police, cite it.

    Why no mention of the massive national study by legal scholars Alfred and Ruth Blumrosen, which found that at least a third of all businesses in the nation engage in substantial discrimination against people of color–hiring such folks at rates that are well below their availability in the local and qualified labor pool, and well below the rates at which they are to be found in non-discriminating companies in the same locales and industries? Indeed, according to the Blumrosen study, at least 1.3 million qualified people of color will face job discrimination in a given year. Or what of the study of temporary agencies in California, which found that white women who are less qualified than their black counterparts, are still three times more likely to be favored in a job search? And what are the odds that he’ll be likely to mention, to any significant degree, the recent EEOC report, which notes that in 2007 there was a twelve percent jump in race-based discrimination complaints in the workplace relative to the previous year (almost all of which were filed by persons of color): bringing the number of such complaints to their highest level since 1994? from http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/Obama.html

    As I said, black graduation rates have risen since the sixties while teen pregnancy has gone down. Single black mothers haven’t had more kids for several decades — married blacks have simply had less. As I said about incarceration – that reflects racism, not cultural failings. 75% of drug users/sellers are white but they are 10% of the drug prisoners. 25% of drug users/sellers are black/Hispanic and they are 90% of drug prisoners.

    Apparently according to you we should quit fighting for justice as it says to do in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Pledge. I refuse to make that anti-American choice. I guess according to you slavery wasn’t a white issue — blacks should have just adjusted to that hostile environment.

  16. Yawn here were are another “Massive White conspiracy” blog. Get over it and take some responsibility.

  17. That’s not a conspiracy – it’s factual knowledge. How do blacks take responsibility for whites shooting blacks or denying them jobs? I don’t get over stuff- I get justice – if you aren’t interested in justice for all, take you anti-American self elsewhere.

    Honestly, who invited the white supremacists?

  18. I wonder why some whites try to duck their responsibility for racism and other anti-American societal failing? They hide it by making it look like blacks are responsible for problems whites cause?

  19. Quoting Tim Wise (who is white) http://timwise.org/:

    In other words, whites too often use “personal responsibility” as a bludgeon against others, when we no longer want to deal with the crap we put out there, whether its discrimination in lending by white banks, racial profiling by cops, or moving away from a neighborhood when too many of “those” people move in.

    After all, how can black folks take responsibility for the fact that even when they have the same level of education and experience, they still are paid less than their white counterparts, and are more likely to be unable to find a job?

    How can black folks take responsibility for the fact that black men are twice as likely to have their cars stopped and searched for drugs, even though whites are twice as likely to actually have drugs on us when we’re stopped?

    Black and brown poor folks are doing self-help all the time, contrary to the common media imagery. They have to; after all, they have enough experience with white institutions to know that such institutions have never done much to improve their situation, and nothing at all unless it was demanded and unless they were mobilized collectively to make it happen.

    But I see very little self-help or even self-reflection in the white community. Rarely do we spend time dealing with our own internalized racial biases and fears, or the discrimination that continues to plague people of color, and which only we have any control over, since the folks doing the discriminating are white like us.

    In fact, not only do we not reflect on it, we get angry when someone brings it up, which is why whites breathe a collective sigh of relief when someone like Cosby comes along and allows us to think our jobs are over.

    But our jobs are not over. And if we expect people of color to take personal responsibility, irrespective of racism’s existence and impact on their lives, then surely we must apply the same logic to ourselves, and take personal responsibility, irrespective of how we think black folks are behaving, or how dysfunctional we may (falsely) perceive them to be. If they aren’t allowed to pass the buck then neither can we be allowed to do so.

    In other words, it is white folks’ job to deal with racism, not point fingers at black and brown folks and tell them to do better. That, after all, is not taking personal responsibility; rather, it’s lecturing others about their need to do so.

    Even worse, many whites actually blame others for our own racial biases. So, for example, whites will often acknowledge negative perceptions of blacks as lazy, violent, dishonest, or whatever, and then blame black folks for feeding that perception by their own actions.

    Talk about not taking personal responsibility! So because of the actions of a small, unrepresentative sample of the African American community (the three percent or so who commit a violent crime annually, for example), whites feel justified in thinking negative things about blacks as a group.

    And then, in what can only be viewed as the epitome of silliness, these same whites want everyone to believe that racism is no longer an obstacle for blacks, even though they have admitted to holding negative views about the entire community in question!

    So we are to believe that persons holding these biases would nonetheless be able to fairly evaluate black job applicants, or potential tenants, or loan applicants; that somehow these stereotypes to which they confess would play no role in their evaluations of such persons in the real world!

    Just listen to the logic here: “Racism isn’t holding blacks back, it’s their own laziness!” If one cannot see the irony in this comment go back and read it again; read it three or four times until you get it. If anything, statements like this are their own negation; they serve to disprove their own claim, even before someone has the chance to respond to them.

  20. -panracial- Okay, you spent some time and found resorces to help augment your points, while failing to address mine.
    The shootings are police issues (under-trained, non-representative,stereotyping, …) and not predicated on race alone.
    The arguement about the disparaty between black incarceration rates to whites is specious. If our culture blames the punishment and not the problem of drugs in our community- I’d call this thinking flawed.
    While you site that the number of teen pregnancies has declined- it’s still higher than it should be.
    Again, you’re stating the problems, and research to show that these problems exist- not the solutions.
    We can’t change society until we change ourselves first. Holding onto this “Blame-Whitey” mind set and not solving these problems is detrimental. It is a Black problem.

  21. Pan – I just wanted you to know that I’m getting a lot out of your comments on this thread. You are probably frustrated by now, but it’s worth the effort!

  22. Crime is not a problem of the Black community.

    Crime is a problem of humanity and has been forever.

    Why when a Black person commits a crime it’s the Black communities fault?

    When a white person commits crime it’s that person’s fault.

    Do you see this Uglyblackjohn?

    White people have a problem with crime that they need to address (lol).

    There are no solutions to crime, notice no community on earth has ever done away with it, no matter how ruthless the punishment is.

    Keep believing, Uglyblackjohn, that Black people have a problem with crime, seriously how could you not when the media and others like yourself say that we do.

    Why does this society revere wildwest gunslingers (murderers) from the past, yet revile gangbangers of today? Aren’t we talking about the same type of crimes? Is there a difference (besides technology)?

    Whites never see crime as a problem of their community but if they are so enlightened and evolved as a commuinity, why does white on white crime still exist?

  23. When the framers of the constitution sat down, most knew that slavery was wrong – legal but wrong. The more important issue was that of forming a country. The slavery issue could wait until these united states could be in a position to address this issue. In stating that racism is a Black issue- I’m saying that we blacks have to be a better position culturaly to adress the white influence and definition of what racism is and how it effects each of us.
    I don’t base my opinions on the mainstream media- who speak in theories and hyperbolous conjecture. I work with many people who most other people are affraid of or think that they’re too good for. I work on changing the mind-set that blames everyone else for ones current situation. While most people state that it’s white peoples’ fault that we Blacks are underperforming – it’s also Black culture’s fault for buying into this arguement. I don’t for form my opinions on the media – whose endless charts and studies can be (mis)interperated in many ways. [ Kind of like the Senators in Washington opinion vs. the colonel’s in the battle field]
    Comparing one’s self to the worst of others brings one to that level. What is this arguement that “they do /did it too”? What are you five (“he hit me first”).
    Those who argue that the effects of racism on the Black community is white people’s fault are themselves racists. By giving someone else the power to determine the outcome of a situation is just the perpetuation of the master/slave mentality. Those whites who ascribe to the whole “White-Guilt” phenomenon are themselves Racists. Why does Black culture need another “White Savior” to rescue it? It doesn’t. Racism is a Black issue.

  24. John, if police shootings aren’t about race show me all the white people killed by the police? Why don’t undertrained white cops kill them?
    If you want to say that the disparaty between black incarceration rates to whites is specious you must show reserach stating why. Our culture does not protest the punishment of black drug criminals, but we do protest the inequity of punishment – besides, your point was that greater incarceration rates were an example of cultural failings when they are an example of bias. Furthermore, the black teen pregnancy rate isn’t higher than the white teen pregnacy rate — black girls are just less likely to abort their babies — once more, any teen pregnancy is bad, but blacks aren’t deficient in that way. Again, no change we make to ourselves can stop whites from not hiring blacks or not shooting blacks. We have to fight for justice. In the example I gave above black women were MORE qualified than white women and still three times less likely to get the job then white women. They were already MORE qualified — they didn’t need to make a change in themselves and it’s cruel and unjust to suggest that they do. Fighting for justice isn’t casting blame — it’s being a patriot. You still have yet to post one single cited fact that bolsters even one of your arguments. You are basing them on PURE stereotype.

    Furthermore, there are plenty of solutions — empowering and strenghtening anti-discrimination laws in the workplace, creating sentencing equity for different types of drugs, funding minority public schools at the same level as white public schools, etc.

  25. Thank you. These are a few solutions. We both want the same end result, we just go about accomplishing them from different directions.
    Making claims based solely on popular media would lead one to believe that only (somewhat) attractive white women go missing.
    Why don’t we have more Black police officers? Most of the ones we do have are so over-zealous to prove how “fair” they are, to fellow white officers, that they end up being more racist than their white partners. We need better trained and more diverse police forces. We need to elevate our youth and start teaching (early) that being a police officer isn’t selling out.
    The over-use of “the race card” diminishes (has diminished) the actual and true claims to racist oppression. Maybe the over-qualified Black job seeker wasn’t likable. Allow me to use this example: Allen Iverson was/is a great basketball player. A lot of teams didn’t want him on their team. Why… a lack of ability? No … he came across as arrogant and disruptive to teams chemistry. Could he site racism, being Black this would be the first reply in the workplace. We have the ACLU and EEOC to fight these cases already so there is no need to argue this point.
    Sentecing equality is a fair and true case for concern. (So, I’ll take more time to form and state an opinion.)
    Funding minority schools? What happened to Brown v. ? Isn’t that a segregationist viewpoint? Many Asian children attend these same schools. Are Asian children just geneticly superior? What are Asian families doing to make/help their children succeed ? How can we Blacks copy that?
    My thesus isn’t comparing Blacks to others- but comparing Blacks as we are to Blacks as we should be.

  26. Also: In quoting Tim Wise (who is White). You make my point even more clearly. His message was from someone white to other whites. It wasn’t a crutch for Black “victims” to fall back on and say, “My work is done”.
    My message is to Blacks and say: “Our work is just starting”.
    Are we starting on the ground floor and did we have to work our way up to here? Yes. I agree with Mr. wise’s observations – the re-enforce mine.

  27. We need to elevate our youth and start teaching (early) that being a police officer isn’t selling out- cite that they think it is.
    The over-use of “the race card” diminishes (has diminished) the actual and true claims to racist oppression – cite inappropriate use of the race card. Maybe the over-qualified Black job seeker wasn’t likable – this is simply conjecture. IIt’s amazing how you will bend over backwards to blame blacks for what whites are responsible for. You think the black people were 3 times more unlikeable? You think that the black people were that uniformly unlikeable? You simply, no matter how strong the evidence is, won’t accept white racism. You also don’t seem to understand the nature of debate — it’s not about making up stuff of the top of your head, but backing up claims with facts — of which you have NONE. EEOC cannot handle 1.3 million job discrimination cases each year. John, schools are still segregated — se Jonathan Kozol. No, many Asian children don’t attend the same schools as blacks — blacks tend to go to school primarily with other blacks and hispanics. You seem to be ignorant about the lack of success in Brown. Most public schools remain segregated and the race of the students remains the largest predictor of funding they receive. See Furthermore, as to the black Asian comparison you’re not comparing apples to oranges because the Asian immigrant population tends to be more highly educated – this is because of strict immigration rules. Indeed, if one examines ethnic Koreans in Japan and the Burakumin there — a minority treated much like the Dalits and other lower caste persons in India — one finds the same kind of consistent underperformance relative to the dominant Japanese in terms of education and employment status. Both are targets of discrimination, and although they are culturally and genetically indistinguishable from other Koreans or Japanese, they are consistently found at the bottom of Japanese society, and do worse than others in Japan and Korea. Not only does this debunk the notion of pan-Asian cultural superiority, it also suggests that a group’s caste status influences group outcomes: much as with blacks in the U.S., whose position has been similar to the Burakumin and ethnic Koreans in Japan. The primary argument put forth on behalf of the model minority myth is that APA income in the U.S. is higher than the average for other people of color and even whites. As such, it is suggested, racial discrimination must be long gone. But data showing Asians doing better than whites is family and household data, not per capita income data. This is important because APA households and families tend to have more family members …Indeed, Asian “success” rhetoric ignores the persistent barriers to advancement faced by Asians relative to whites. On average, APAs with a college degree earn 11 percent less than comparable whites, and APAs with a high school diploma earn, on average, 26 percent less than their white counterparts. When Asian American men have qualifications comparable to white men, they still receive fewer high-ranking positions than those same white men. APA male engineers and scientists are 20 percent less likely than white men to move into management positions in their respective companies, despite no differences in ambition or desire for such positions.

    Quoting Tim Wise http://timwise.org/:

    First, I noted that the Asian “model minority” myth has long been a staple of white conservative race commentary, though rarely have members of the various Asian communities in the U.S. pushed the notion themselves. The genesis of this argumentation goes back to the 1950s and ’60s, when prominent magazines ran articles lauding the “hard-working” Chinese or Japanese, and explicitly contrasting their “success” with the “failure” of African Americans. That they offered such a contrast at the height of the modern civil rights movement — as if to say to black folks, “stop complaining about racism and just work harder” — should not be lost on anyone. Secondly, I explained that comparisons between blacks and Asian Pacific Americans (APAs) overlook a number of differences between them. Whereas the black population represents a cross-section of background, the APA community is highly self-selected. Voluntary migrants from nations that are not contiguous to their country of destination tend to have the skills and money needed to leave their home country in the first place. As many scholars have found, Asian immigrants are largely drawn from an occupational and educational elite in their countries of origin.

    Indeed, Asian success in the U.S. relative to others is largely due to immigration policies that favor immigrants with pre-existing skills and education. As the Glass Ceiling Commission discovered in 1995, between two-thirds and three-quarters of the highly educated APA community already had college degrees before coming to the U.S., or were in college upon arrival. Thanks to preferences for educated immigrants, APAs are two-thirds more likely than whites and three times more likely than blacks to have a college degree. More than 8 in 10 Indian immigrants from 1966-1977 had advanced degrees and training in such areas as science, medicine or engineering.

    Pre-existing educational advantages are implicated in Asian success, but hardly indicate genetic or cultural superiority. After all, to claim superior Asian genes or culture as the reasons for achievement in the U.S. requires one to ignore the rampant poverty of persons from the same backgrounds in their countries of origin. There is no shortage, after all, of desperately poor Asians in the slums of Manila, Calcutta and Hong Kong: testament to the absurdity of cultural superiority claims for Asians as a group.

    I didn’t use Tim Wise’s previous words as a crutch for blacks, he merely points out that there is no human way for blacks to be responsible for white racism. I’m not sure if you’re a self-hating black or a white racist in disguise. It’s funny how you’re so sensitive about not “blaming” whites i.e. holding them accountable, yet you’re quick to blame blacks even when they’re overqualified and denied jobs. Just so you know, one of my four races IS white so when I criticize whites I criticizing my own people – which according to you is fine. You say you’re biracial — is your other half white? If so, you can criticize them as your own people too. But even if not you can still hold them responsible.

  28. Sorry, one more thing (I think) John, you don’t seem to be aware that experiments have controls — that means that the white and black women in the California experience would have exhibit the same manner, been dressed the same, etc. In fact, in many experiments of this nature, there is even a script to make sure all participants give the same responses to the same questions.

    As for how segregation works, in many cities, most black kids go to school witih over 80% black/hispanic kids and those schools get often half the funding of those of white kids who go to school with over 80% white kids.

  29. I don’t say that whites society isn’t or shouldn’t be held accountable. I’m not even denying that racism exists and is inherent in ALL people. What I’m trying to get accross is that we need to stop looking at the challenges and begin to look for solutions. Since changing society takes longer and those changes often don’t render the desired results, we need to take control of our own lives.
    As far as refering to other’s opinions or studies, I’d prefer to be seminal and not derivative. (Re; studies-controls, I have an ex who worked for a pharmaceutical company – they would test and re-test until they came up with the desired results. I don’t put absolute faith in too many tests and studies) Citing other’s works is just one aspect of debate – questioning and re-questioning is another. It just depends on which method works best in a given situation.
    Are the schools with more funding in a more affluent area? Do they have a larger tax base from which to draw? Is the per-student funding in the black schools less or more? Does the CULTURE (and/or expectations) of one school have an influence on these school’s performance?
    [One’s race has nothing to do with this argument. If you must know; Father- Black (Creole, so yes the white is evident in our appearance / Mother- 1/2 Mexican, 1/2 Native-American (Modoc & Klamath tribes) ]
    As far as blaming the slaves for their conditions and situation, that’s ridiculous. Slavery was legal and generaly accepted. The slave had no power or recourse. While many people (blacks included) believe that we are gauranteed the right of being equal, we are not- we’re gauranteed equal protection under the law, we are promised an equal opportunity to make of one’s life what one will.
    Change and progress don’t happen overnight and are rarely permanent. We have to stay vigilant in maintaining and growing our freedoms.
    One cannot down-play the influence of popular youth culture. The hip-hop generation and the exploitation of it are a large part of Black culture. (not going to stray off-topic here) When being “a snitch” is seen as the opposite of helping solve a crime, we have a problem.
    I’m not saying: “Don’t Blame the Massa’ (sic)” What I’m saying is: “We are our Master”.
    I would really like to read your thoughts on a lot of subjects. Please e-mail me or keep posting here. (although this drive-by turned into a battle) There are other topics on the net and I can’t spend every free moment on this site.
    A justifiable descent is not only the right but the obligation of those in a free democracy.

  30. Racism isn’t in all people – racists like to think it is to feel less guilty and in order to avoid taking responsibility for becoming less racist. You have to look at challenges in order to rectify them and the excuse that fighting for justice takes too long and has unpredictable results is just that – an excuse. You have to show you’re basing any argument you make on fact – if you want to be seminal that doesn’t exempt you from research, it just means you have to prouduce research to show that what you’re claiming is based in reality. What you call being seminal is actually parroting derivative stereotypes and lazily avoiding research even when multiple studies corroborate the same conclusions — are ALL those studies flawed? The one I quoted on blacks drinking, smoking, having casual sex, and bringing weapons to school less that whites was actually from a right-wing think tank. You clearly know nothing about debate as all arguments and questions have to be supported by fact – otherwise everyone would do as you do and make up nonsense off the tops of their heads – there is no situation in which that is appropriate, and while questioning is good, research has to inform questions and answers. As for schools, there is a direct correlation between the presence of whites in a school and the funding they receive. As for black culture’s influence on schooling:
    http://raceandhistory.com/selfnews/viewnews.cgi?newsid1040950156,64587,.shtml

    According to the National Center for Education Statistics, 43% of black fourth-graders do one hour or more of homework per night, as do 45% of whites and 47% of Hispanics. Although Asian fourth-graders are more likely than any other group to study one or more hours per night (56% do so), the differences between whites, blacks and Hispanics are too small to explain performance differences, and certainly contradict the notion that blacks or Latinos devalue education relative to whites.

    In fact, black and Hispanic fourth-graders are both more likely than whites that age to do more than one hour of homework, with 18% of Hispanics, 17% of blacks, but only 15% of whites putting in this amount of study time daily. Although Asians demonstrate more study time at this level, the differences between them and other students of color are not substantial: about 21% of Asian students in fourth grade study more than one hour.
    Once again, NCES statistics indicate that black children are more likely than whites to often spend time with their parents on homework.
    Black students are twice as likely as white students to get help from their parents on homework every day of the school week (twenty percent compared to ten percent), and while roughly half of black students get help from parents on homework at least three times each week, approximately two-thirds of whites get such help two times or less, with whites a third more likely than blacks to work with parents rarely if ever on their homework.
    Black twelfth graders are more than twice as likely as whites to have perfect attendance (16% versus 7.4%), and are even more likely than Asians to have perfect attendance.

    Whites are more likely than blacks to have missed seven or more days during the last semester, while blacks are less likely than members of any racial group to have missed that many days of school.

    A recent opinion poll of black youth, ages 11-17, found that the biggest hope for these youth was to go to college, and additional studies have found that black youth value academic success every bit as much as white students and often place an even higher priority on educational achievement than whites.

    Despite claims by many on the right that blacks—especially youth—lack a connection to “mainstream values,” evidence contradicts this notion. One mid-1990’s questionnaire of black high school seniors found that black seniors were just as likely as white seniors to say that a good marriage and family life were “extremely important” life goals; 32% more likely than whites to say that professional success and accomplishment were “extremely important” life goals; 26% more likely than whites to say “making a contribution to society” was extremely important; and 75% more likely than whites to say “being a leader in their community” was an extremely important life goal.
    Black students are only half as likely as whites to be placed in high-tracked English or math classes, and 2.4 times more likely than whites to be placed in remedial classes. Even when blacks demonstrate equal ability with their white counterparts, they are less likely to be placed in accelerated classes.

    When kids from lower-income families—who are disproportionately of color—correctly answer all math questions on a standardized test, they are no more likely to be placed in advanced or college tracks than children from upper-income families who missed a fourth of the questions, and they are 26% less likely to be placed in advanced tracks than upper-income persons with comparably perfect scores. Even the President of the College Board has acknowledged that black 8th graders with test scores comparable to whites are disproportionately placed in remedial high school classes.

    YOU made the debate about race when you said one only had the right to criticize their own people. Since we’re both mixed with white we can both criticize white people, although you seem to find them exempt from criticism. Blacks know they aren’t promised equality of result, but they are entitled to an unbiased playing field.

    You have no research showing prevalence of a “stop snitching view” or ill effects due to hip hop –especially since less than 20% of hip hop is bought by blacks and no one ever discusses the affects of Scorcese or the Sopranos on whites. Furthermore, my earlier findings on the behavior of black youths (more healthy and ethical than that of whites) shows that hip hop isn’t destroying black culture.

    Once more, we are our masters but we cannot control someone else’s discrimination and there is no change we can make within ourselves that can stop us from being victims of racist city planners, school developers, bankers, doctors, or employers.

  31. Great points one and all. Thank you.
    My question is; what can we do to help solve these problems?
    If so many blacks are over qualified and still decriminated against, how do we get to the point were we become the obvious choice?
    Is it the media portrayal? ( Most black television characters remind me of Amos & Andy. Not since the Cosby Show and A Different World has there been a balance in the portrayal of blacks.)
    You and I probably deal with different levels of black society on a daily basis. I’m trying to get underqualified people qualified. When we take into account the lowest end of our culture, it brings down the average. It is by the (perceived) average which most people judge others.
    How do we get so many of our people to uderstand that uderperformance isn’t the default black way of doing things? (How many times have you heard; “ghetto-fab”, “hood-rich” or”that’s good for a black person” stated by blacks. What about; “Talking White”,”Acting White” or “Thinks they’re White” whenever someone has actually applied what they’ve learned in school?
    I’m not talking from studies (Although I will read the ones you’ve cited) but from actually spending the last 10 years in the hood trying to get people out. The change in thinking is the first step. Money alone doesn’t solve the problem of poverty. When I saw the morning weather report, it called for rain. When I went outside, it wasn’t raining. I actually had to go outside and be in the environment to be able to know the weather. [You seem smart so… step away from the keyboard… walk away slowly… and take a look outside. Actually be involved in the situations and environment you so viseraly claim to know.]
    All of this “It’s white peoples fault” is counter-productive.

  32. John, it doesn’t matter what causes white racism — the fact is we need to strengthen anti-discrimination laws to punish it. All cultures have underqualifired and qualified people but I”ve already shown you that poor character traints and underperformance aren’t endemic to black culture (and often occur much more frequently in white culture. Once more — personal experience is not systematic research. The research I showed above shows that the overwhelming amount of black ppl aren’t interested in being ghetto-fab or the other things you mentioned — as far as acting white…http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/12/magazine/12ACTING.html?ex=1260594000&en=37bb3e44882a21bc&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland Karolyn Tyson, a sociologist at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and William Darity Jr., an economist at Duke and U.N.C., coordinated an 18-month ethnographic study at 11 schools in North Carolina. What they found was that black students basically have the same attitudes about achievement as their white counterparts do: they want to succeed, understand that doing well in school has important consequences in later life and feel better about themselves the better they do.

    I refuse to say that saying it’s white people’s fault that white people shot Amadou Diallo is counter-productive — that’s not Jay Z’s fault, pop culture’s fault, or anybody else’s but the whites who pulled the trigger.

    You telling me to get away from the computer is you way of telling me to stop using concrete research and to rely on stereotypes the way you do. Nice try.

  33. I had a huge arguement with my cousins and friends about our posts. The thing that I failed to realize is that you’re focusing on the glass ceiling- I’m thinking of helping people break through the concrete ground floor.
    Your statements grouping white people – is in itself racist. But you’re not racist? Everyone is racist.
    I’ve spent ten years being poor (dirt-poor) in order to better understand the situation. ( okay, I’ll say… in this area with this group of people.) This whole three day discussion (not debate) could have been avoided if I would have initialy stated; “In my opinion…”. When Washington wants to know what’s going on in the war, they ask a general. They don’t read a report from someone not intimatly familiar with the situation. Empirical knowledge is sometimes more reliable than strict data.
    Apparently you read into statements or comments that which you desire.
    I’ve politely agreed with most of your comments, I disagree with others. Just because someone has a differing opinion doesn’t make it invalid. One learns more from opposing views than one does preaching to the choir. You know… the whole- like coals to Newcastle – thing.
    I’m not sure if I offended you by being another mixed-race person – with whom you happen to disagree- on this blog site. Maybe you’re used to being the final word on all things mixed here. I don’t know. Maybe you still have issues about never being black enough (or white enough). Ask your psychiatrist mom. (She’d say that your projecting). Just stop already.
    I’ve poliely asked you to just e-mail me. You seem bright and I would love to read your opinions on several issues. Having imformation and knowing how to apply it are not the same thing.
    Thank you for your time and teaching, UBJ.

  34. Oh, sorry, I forgot. Your first quote on this page is what I’ve (unsuccessfuly) been trying to argue this whole time. Maybe I should have quoted someone else to validate my point.

  35. I’m not speaking about all white people — therefore I’m not being racist. In fact, I’ve done a good deal of quoting from white scholars both left and right wing whose work I admire. Furthermore, you have no problem talking about what’s wrong with blacks as a group. I am speaking about white TENDENCIES such as white youths tendency to drink more than black youths. I don’t have any issues with my heritage — I’m quite content in my four cultures. Since I have a real psychologist in the family I don’t need your armchair advice either. Even empirical evidence is measured in a systematic way and researchers are intimate with what they study. You seem to think research is unrelated to reality when it’s actually a more accurate and systemic view of reality than personal experience or stereotype. That’s how I was able to show that your stereotypical beliefs about hip hop culture, “acting white,” and police brutality are all wrong. You then said that if I was defending blacks accurately it must be b/c I was referring to a special class of blacks, but the truth is my quoted researchers were working among the very people you so despise. Here’s what WHITE Tim Wise has to say about the fallacy of personal experiencehttp://www.blackcommentator.com/196/196_rationalizing_think_wise.html:

    First, those who rationalize their racism on the basis of their personal experiences with members of the group they dislike, are being highly selective when it comes to the experiences from which they think we should draw conclusions.
    Second, to draw conclusions about large groups (in the case of black folks, some 36 million people, and for Latinos, another 37 million or so in the U.S.), based on one’s experiences with a handful of people from those groups is the very definition of statistical illiteracy. Even if you had encountered dozens of folks from a particular group who, for whatever reason, had rubbed you the wrong way, this would be such a small and obviously unrepresentative sample, that to reach any conclusions about that group as a whole would be absurd.
    Which points up the biggest flaw in the thinking of racist whites, who call upon their personal experiences with people of color so as to justify their bigotry: namely, how many bad experiences with other whites are such folks forgetting, which didn’t lead them to generalize about white folks as a group? Studies have found that we tend to remember stereotype-confirming behavior in those who are considered different, while ignoring the many times members of our own group did the same things, because in the latter instance, such behavior doesn’t trigger a pre-existing mental schema, or set of beliefs, that can be applied to explain the behavior. So whites can do all the same things as blacks, but still be viewed as individuals, while blacks who do anything negative are viewed through a racial group lens.

    I don’t mind disagreeing with people – I do mind people parroting ugly stereotypes that research proves to be myth. My goal isn’t to be the last word — but I cannot afford to leave racist nonsense unchallenged on the web where anyone who’s uninformed can read it and be swayed. William Lloyd Garrison (my hero and a WHITE abolitionist) said, “With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plea; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will certainly be lost.” I have no desire to have an email conversation with you as you’ve shown yourself to be neither reasonable nor humane — my only interest in this conversation is that you don’t poison the public sphere with unchecked inaccuracies. I don’t know why you assume I’m not familiar with poor blacks or am not interested in what goes on on the “concrete floor,” but what I do know is this — I feel really sorry for you – not in a condescending way but because you’re full of self hatred – and that makes you dangerous not only to yourself but to other non-whites.

  36. Thank you for your concern.
    Please explain to me in the simplest terms:
    Black Empowerment… Bad ? Dependence on White…Good!
    It IS our issue.
    Self-hatred? I can call myself uglyblackjohn and laugh. You call yourself panracial as a claim to being not… quite… black? Who hates one’s self?
    I’ve noted your references, and I’ve read some. Maybe next week I’ll get back to you with a fully cited and referenced reply.

  37. Quote one argument where I claimed that black empowerment was bad or that dependence on whites was good. Explain to me just how it’s the unarmed black man’s issue when a white cop shoots him? Just what responsibility did the black man not carry out? I don’t call myself panracial to avoid any race but to embrace all of them: pan means all, silly. Obviously if I were avoiding blackness I wouldn’t be claiming it over the web where I’m invisible and could get away with labeling myself as any race. You’re making the dumb claim that simply by not negating my other races I’m somehow negating blackness. Ridiculous after I’ve spent this whole discussion defending blacks and you just accused me of doing so from insecurity due to not being black enough. You even derogatorily compared my line of reasoning to a black fictional character and have chastised me throughout the conversation for my loyalty to blacks. Conversely, you’re the one who only claims one of your races in your name — I could scold you for distancing yourself from your Latin, Native, or French blood. I embrace all my races and you claim I’m negating one while you claim only one of your races in your name — leaving the others out. You’re the one who aligned ugliness with blackness and handsomeness with being biracial.

    You have made one inaccurate statement after another and even when shown the inaccuracy of your claims you still cling to your racist beliefs. In the face of a study that proves that black women more qualified than white women were three times less likely to be hired than white women you claim that the black women must have been unlikeable – because it HAS to be the black people’s fault in your mind. You have absolutely no reason the think that the black women were unlikeable – you simply pulled that out of the air. You insist that blacks don’t value education and then have no comeback when I show the multiple studies showing they value it more than whites. You claim that the death of Amadou Diallo was due to police incompetence and not racism, yet when I provided the list of all the minorities killed by the police, you weren’t able to find a single white person wrongly killed by the cops. You prove that your racism and stereotypes are baseless by running on to the next piece of nonsense instead of sticking with one of your outlandish claims, researching it, and trying to back it up. You realize they have no foundation. Instead of admitting you’re wrong you move on to the next stereotype because facts neither create nor change your view of reality — you believe in anti-black bigotry independence of all evidence about black reality. You toss out one baseless stereotype, and when it’s disproved, move on to the next. You don’t understand the meaning of research, empiricism, or being seminal, using the three as variant labels for intellectual laziness. I love how white Americans are allowed to fight for their rights but when blacks do it its dependence on white people — in other words, when blacks demand bias-free hiring, healthcare, city planning, or education, they aren’t treated as patriots honoring the American goal of fighting for justice but as whiners who are dependent on white handouts. You’re the kind of person who would tell a rape victim that since she can’t control what men do maybe she should change within herself and not dress so revealingly. You’d tell her not to go to court and fight for justice against the rapist because that would make her dependent on her oppressor and wouldn’t empower her. You’d tell her to quit focusing on the man who raped her and to worry about herself. But just as women have the right to legal recourse when raped – a right that goes unchallenged in mainstream society, blacks have the right to legal recourse when discriminated against – yet that right to justice is treated as a luxury, privilege, handout, or treat. That demand for justice is delegtimized and seen as something apart from all other demands for justice. The justice blacks demand from whites isn’t about race but simply about the treatment all Americans are entitled to receive from all Americans, something all humans are entitled to receive from all humans. And blacks have the right to create, strengthen, and enforce infrastructure that aids their fight for justice — that fight for and defense of justice is empowerment and the insistence that whites not illegally and unethically victimize blacks isn’t dependence upon them.

    Martin Luther King Jr. once said, “It may be true that the law cannot change the heart but it can restrain the heartless.” You seem to think some change within black people will do what law cannot :change the hearts of racists – it can’t, a heart can only be changed from within, but blacks can fight for laws that restrain racists. You portray the black fight for justice and equality as alternately quixotic or whining, but, to quote MLK again, “If we are wrong, the Supreme Court of this nation is wrong. If we are wrong, the Constitution of the United States is wrong. And if we are wrong, God Almighty is wrong. If we are wrong, Jesus of Nazareth was merely a utopian dreamer that never came down to Earth. If we are wrong, justice is a lie, love has no meaning.” He also said, “We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed.” Did you hear that – freedom must be DEMANDED – it isn’t voluntarily given because the oppressed, already more sinned against than sinning, make a change within themselves. And if one of the noblest Americans in our history could say that the oppressed must demand justice of the oppressors, I’m not going to disagree b/c a guy calling himself uglyblackjohn thinks that demanding justice is dependence on whites.

  38. Pan- This has quickly gone from productive disagreement to juvenile personal attacks on both of our parts. For questioning your Blackness and commitment to blacks, I apologize.
    Malcolm and Martin failed to agree on procedure but always agreed on cause. Both were correct.
    If you get totaly bored please read my explanation (you know where- you just hate going there) It’s pretty long but read in any order and you’ll have a better idea.
    Again, I apologize for being childish. UBJ

  39. John, I’ll be happy to end this debate at any time, but I’m not going to leave dangerous ideas unchallenged where racists can find them and be swayed. While MLK/Malcolm may have disagreed on non-violence, they both agreed that you must demand liberty from the oppressors – not all people who disagree have valid points however. To the end of not leaving valid points unchallenged let me address this little blurb that I seem to have missed:

    When the framers of the constitution sat down, most knew that slavery was wrong – legal but wrong. The more important issue was that of forming a country. The slavery issue could wait until these united states could be in a position to address this issue: Nope, as William Lloyd Garrison (white abolitionist said) the framers were simply more concerned with addressing a three penny tax on tea then solving a much more grevious problem “If men are justified in striking a blow for freedom, when the question is one of a three­penny tax on tea, then, I say, they are a thousand times more justi­fied, when it is to save fathers, mothers, wives and children from the slave-coffle and the auction-block, and to restore to them their God-given rights.” Everything the Founding fathers were opposing was legal but wrong, but they decided that some concerns, even ones Thomas Jefferson admitted were more minor, were more important that ending one of the most egregious and massive human rights abuses of all time. They were going to have a revolution ANYWAYS so they could have included ending slavery in that revolution but instead they just focused on addressing their own concerns.

    I don’t base my opinions on the mainstream media- who speak in theories and hyperbolous conjecture: actually you do, every stereotype you pose from black antiintellectualism to black incarceration rates actually reflecting black crime rates is a direct produce of mass media. Instead, my research comes not from mass media but from sociologists, the FBI itself, and places like National Center for Education Statistics. While most people state that it’s white peoples’ fault that we Blacks are underperforming — as I showed numerous times, Blacks aren’t underperforming — in everything from study habits to drinking to smoking to carrying weapons blacks perform better than whites. Comparing one’s self to the worst of others brings one to that level — I’m not comparing blacks to the worst of whites, I’m comparing all blacks to all white when I quote facts about drinking, smoking, casual sex, etc., and I’m disputing your claim that blacks as a group are deficient to whites as a group. Those who argue that the effects of racism on the Black community is white people’s fault are themselves racists — yeah, just like people who say that slavery was white people’s fault is racist. By giving someone else the power to determine the outcome of a situation is just the perpetuation of the master/slave mentality – don’t you understand, when whites cops shoot black men its not because blacks had any power to give or hold onto — whites had all the power in that situation and they simply used it. Blacks aren’t asking for white saviors — they’re only asking that white act in accordance with moral, legal, and patriotic values.

    I certainly don’t intend to follow you to your blog as I’ve said I don’t have interest in conversation with you — as William Lloyd Garrison said, “William Lloyd Garrison With reasonable men, I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will surely be lost.” I know my arguments are lost on you but they may not be to the people who read this blog – at least one person has already come forward to say that they aren’t. Oh – and you can’t quote a place where I’ve personally attacked you. I’ve even refused to call you ugly when you attack yourself.

  40. Pan stated: They were going to have a revolution ANYWAYS so they could have included ending slavery in that revolution but instead they just focused on addressing their own concerns.

    Do you have a source for that perspective besides a radical of the era who, apparently, has no credibility as a strategist? Preferably writings from a war historian who takes into account the French, British, Spanish and German threats against the young nation?

  41. Pingback: Rock My Soul: Black People and Self-Esteem | illvox: anarchist people of color, race, anarchy, revolution

  42. Pan, sorry that it took me so long to reply.
    *http:www.hru.org/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/
    *http:www.ojp.usdoj.gog/bjs/homecide/ageracesex.html
    *http:www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homecide/race.html
    All state that blacks disporportionately commit more crime.
    http:www.infoplease.com/ipa/A088413.
    even thogh we are only about 13% of the population. This problem is cultural an not racial(genetic) and can be solved.
    In response to your “facts”;
    -http:www.lipmagazine… (50 shots)
    Okay, read it and heard it all before. How do we fix it? while race is a factor in this (and your other cited shootings). It is a part of a larger police issue. “When Cops Become Gangsters”/ Joseph D McNamara p.88 “Everything You Know is Wrong” addresses this issue.
    -http:www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/obama-html.
    Mr. Wise writes; “…and Bill (meaning Cosby, not Clinton, whose blackness is believed to be authentic only by himself nowadays)”. What? Your “source” is someone assigning a stereotype to what is really black? In citing this as a souce for “facts” on housing descrmination. Using Mr. Wise’s opinion as a “fact” is nets the same results as making a copy of a copy of a copy. http:www.eric.ed.gov is the “Q” (original source).
    *http://www.pbs.orge/makingschoolswork/nycreport.html
    *http:www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_baeo.htm
    Both state thet only 56% of African-American students graduate. Recent reports state that the number is as high as 70% in places like Detroit.
    *http://www.tgsrm.org/African%20American%20Families.html
    This report states that 68% of African-American households are those of single mothers
    *http://www.cnsnews.com/viewculture.asp?Page=/culture/archive/200711/CUL200711209.html
    This report states that AA women are twice as likely overall to have an abortion. You; “..black girls are just less likely to abort their babies.” What “facts” do you cite?
    -http;//wwwblackcommentator.com…
    -http://timwise.org/…
    -httpraceandhistory.com/selfnews…
    Tim Wise again? These are just some guy’s opinion on these topics and not a real source for “facts”
    *As far as “Stop Snitching” being a problem in our community; Just Google or Yahoo it. There are far too many sources to list here.
    *As far as the negative influence of the current hip-hop culture “Toxic TV Syndrome/ Kalle Lasn p.142 “Everything You Know Is Wrong”. I don’t solely blame rap as the reason for our culture’s shortcomings but I think that the impact is greater for AA youth.
    *”Untouchables in the Twenty-First Century”/ Dr. K Jamanadas. You could have just listed this source instead of trying to pass this arguement off as your own regarding the Dalits.
    *http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0884135.html
    This site lists the cities with the highest percentage of Black residents.
    Gary, Ind 84%/ Detroit, Mich 81.6/Birmingham, Ala 73.5/ Jackson, Miss 70.6/ New Orleans,LA 67.3/ Baltimore, Md 64.3/ Atlanta, GA 61.4/ Memphis, Tenn 61.4/ Washington D.C. 60/ Richmond, Va 57.2. What percentage of these cities is the best places for blacks to flourish? Can 30% of others really have that big of an impact on us?
    -Jonathan Kozol “Amazing Grace”- Okay, I was born into a simular environment and got out. Went back to this type of situation and worked my way out. I inhereted a neighborhood with this environment and work to get the residents out. While sad, I can introduce you to people today who are in the same situation. This is nothing new to me.
    -Mr. Kozol recommended “The Meassure of Our Success” Marian Wright Edelman. It’s actually a quick read but very insightful. Ms. Edelman quotes a Rabbi – which I’ll use in closing
    “We are not equally guilty but we are all equqally responsible” Rabbi Abraham Hescel
    “…And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?…” Matthew : 7 1-5
    “Someone once said that the word ‘motivation’ should never be used in the singular. Some combination of motives always exist and it’s impossible for antone to qualify the proportion of each that is involved in any given act” Warren Buffet.
    All I’ve been trying to get across is that you seem to give too much power to someone else to determine your value. In quoting Dr. King; Where was his research or what studies did he use to qualify his speaches? He was in the situation not just reading and writing about it. Empirical knowledge as YOUR source?
    When I state that Racism is a Black issue, I’m still not convinced that I’m wrong in this thought. We blacks with means and resources are socialy and morally obligated to fight for those who cannot. We blacks are the first step in this process. Not the Whites (not all whites but the ones that do) who oppress. These people need to see more than a sea of White faces whenever they get help. We need to show them that WE can help. WE need to show them that there are good, qualified, compasionate, and worthy Blacks. WE need to show that US helping us is as good as (IMO- better. The effects of Blacks doing for Blacks has a greater impact on Blacks who feel that being Black isn’t good enough) the help these people get from Whites. In effect – we need to stop thinking that White help is good help and that Black help is inferior. The Self-esteem issue starts at home and is too important to give to another race, culture or institution.
    Thank you for your patience. UGLYBLACKJOHN.

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