From the BBC news:
Nearly 80 baby girls in a county in Guizhou province, in the south of the country, were confiscated from their families when their parents could not or would not pay the fine, Southern Metropolis News said.
The girls were taken into orphanages and sold to couples from the United States and a number of European countries.
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July 2, 2009 at 5:14 pm
overseaschinese
A lot more. More than what adoptive parents want to believe. But still I don’t see people withdrawing their applications. How can anyone still adopt from China knowing that some of these babies aren’t true orphans? I guess many are hoping that their child won’t be one of the statistics.
One day, your child is going to ask you why she was in the orphanage. Can you still look her in her eyes and say “I don’t know”?
July 3, 2009 at 1:22 am
resistance
Another article here:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-07/03/content_8350825.htm
July 3, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Lori
I thought most babies in China came to be in orphanages because parents, anticipating something like this, didn’t wait to be told by their local officials.
Yes, this article describes something terrible. But I don’t think that the usual circumstance is much better, or even much different, than having the issue forced by local authorities. The main difference here is not that the children were taken, but that they were taken and then a finder’s fee obtained by the government officials – that is, they had reasons of their own financial gain to enforce the family planning policy.
I am surprised very much by a different, offhand comment in the article. Supposedly the child taken from one family was their fifth. It seems that they were allowed to keep the older three daughters and their son. “Like every other father in Zhenyuan, Lu wanted a boy, who finally arrived after three daughters. His wife then gave birth to another girl, and the couple had to support five children with a yearly income of about 5,000 yuan ($732).”
What is very interesting – it seems that they are trying to change the law that would permit the government to do this –
” Zhou Ze, a lawyer and professor with China Youth College for Political Sciences, said local family planning officials and the orphanage had committed a crime because nobody had the right to exploit a parent’s right of guardianship over their children.
The fact that babies had been removed to make a profit meant it was also abduction, Zhou said. ”
—- hard to tell from the article if their legal case is that the government should never take a child for family planning. or that the alleged fee-splitting by the government officials is what rendered these particular cases a problem
July 3, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Kathy
OverseasChina, you make a great point, I think, and it certainly is a hard one to answer, and unfortunately, I think a great many adoptive parents use the term “abandonment” way too loosely, of course, I do believe that “abandonment” is just a term to make a child available for international adoption and to meet the requirements of orphan status with immigration.
I am curious what other adoptive parents here do tell their children.
Lori, what i find really interesting in the article is this:
“It is legal that they can charge fines, as the parents did violate the law by giving birth to more than one child. But that doesn’t mean they can take away the child. The fines can be paid later or reduced”, he said.
Tang Jian, an official of the Zhenyuan family planning bureau, said: “According to our investigation, it is true that babies who have parents were forced into the orphanage and then abroad”.
To me, this quote probably embodies the crux of adoption in China. All adopted children from China have parents. I would guess that each and everyone of the children adopted internationally have parents, and some adoptive families have already found them.
July 4, 2009 at 4:32 am
luckypennyx2
i really need to take an anti depressant before reading your blog. thanks for providing this information, it is needed.
July 4, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Margie
Thank you for the link to this article. Ditto Kathy, and I would add that APs use the term “orphan” far too loosely as well.
The attitudes I see online on many AP blogs and in AP forums don’t give me much hope for a groundswell of sentiment against such practices. Instead, I see a lot of denial, along with dismissal of those who speak out, like the Smolins. The prevailing reaction seems to be “that was an isolated case,” and those who continue to push the point are dismissed for overreacting or fearmongering or (if another AP is making the point) hypocrisy.
July 4, 2009 at 9:22 pm
overseaschinese
“About 80 newborn baby girls from a county of Guizhou Province in southwest China have been removed from their families by local officials since 2001, and most have been handed over to foreign adoptive parents as orphans at a price of $3,000 each, the Southern Metropolis News reported on Wednesday”
I found a link from a missing children website in China saying that 300 families from a county in Guizhou have had their children taken way by one-child police. They believe most of them have been adopted by foreigners.
If you can read Chinese, go here:
http://www.baobeihuijia.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp?boardid=22&Id=18284
July 5, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Lori
I wanted to explain something that is known to every parent who adopts from China, but may not be familiar to others.
$3000 is the fee paid to the government and orphanage for adopting. It is required for every adoption except some special needs children. Supposedly it goes to the orphanage directly for the good of the children who remain. It is not a purchase price, and the fact that it was paid actually implies that the adoption in question is appropriate according to Chinese law – not the opposite.
July 5, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Kathy
Hi Lori,
the problem with the 3000., is that times 5 to 6000 children per year, is a lot of money, that is why adoption is viewed as an industry and big business. Now, I am not criticizing China government, but I do see a problem with removing children from their homes, and then getting a lot of money in return. Doesn’t that seem a little suspicious?
Lori, how would you feel if your government took the child/ren who you love away from you, and people from another country paid 3000.00 and took them far, far away, and told your child/ren that they were now Mom and Dad.
How would you feel? How would other people from your country feel?
July 5, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Lori
Kathy, I understand that adoption is a big business. However, that has nothing to do with my point, which is to explain what the $3000 is about.
This $3000 is required by the Chinese government. It applies to all non-special needs adoptions, regardless of whether the child is a true orphan, was taken because of the family planning policy, or was abandoned. It is not, as was implied, some kind of bribe paid to these officials to remove children from their parents. The money is supposed to go to the orphanages.
Most abandoned children in China are abandoned because of the family planning policy and its effects particularly on poorer families. I don’t see why it is so different to unhappily relinquish a child, spontaneously, because you are afraid of the family planning policy, vs to wait until the family planning people come to your house and do in fact remove a child for the same reason. Surely the sadness is not much different from one case to the other.
July 6, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Kathy
Lori,
Two points,
You don’t really know where the 3000.00 goes to for sure, and also, when a gov official removes child from the home, and then the gov. benefits by the 3000.00, and adoptive families are aware of this situation, than the difference, to me, becomes complicity.
July 6, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Lori
Kathy, what involvement if any do you have in adoption?
July 6, 2009 at 9:06 pm
resistance
Potential for corruption, trafficking and baby sales is huge whenever money is involved.
overseaschinese, I think you are right. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
July 7, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Kathy
Hi Lori,
To answer your question, I am an adoptive parent.
I am curious, why do you ask?